We spoke with Reiko Ezaki of Sonorite Co., Ltd., which supports the operations of NPO organizations.
"The perfect relationship with Kintan Lab's Motohashi"

In April 2023, Sonorite Inc. released the supporter list management platform " bokintone ". The person in charge of developing the kintone plugin was Daisuke Motohashi of Monosus Kintan Lab . This time, we interviewed Reiko Ezaki, CEO of Sonorite, in Kamiyama Town, Tokushima. She talked about her relationship with Motohashi from their first meeting to the present, Sonorite's business activities, and the relationship between the newly developed "bokintone" and kintone.

During the trip, we asked, "Can we do this?"

Sugimoto: When did you two start working together?

Ezaki: I think the first time I spoke with Dai-chan (Motohashi) was around 2014. At the time, the NPO Green Valley was running a three-base collaboration project in Kamiyama, Tottori/Kano, and Okayama/Kurashiki with an art-related grant it received from the Toyota Foundation. Ominami (Shinya) was giving a talk at a workshop in Kano, so we all decided to go and support him. On the way there, I asked him about Sonorite's project, "Is there something we can do like this?" and Dai-chan said, "You can do it, right?" I think that's how it went. "Yeah! Well, let's make it."

Motohashi: It was just when I started using kintone. When I went to a hackathon event held in Tokushima, Cybozu's kintone was on display as one of the development environments. They were introducing it as, "If you call the API like this, you can use it like this." I thought, "Oh, so this is what you can do. This is perfect for what I want to do," and I started using it.

Sugimoto: What made you think, "We could work together" with Motohashi?

Reiko Ezaki, CEO of Sonorite Co., Ltd.

Esaki: As the client, I have asked many system engineers to do work for me. When I tell them, "We need this kind of system to collect donations," the important thing is whether they can understand what I want to do. I think Dai-chan got it pretty quickly.

Motohashi: If you are clear about what you want to do, you can come up with any number of logical steps. Conversely, if you are not clear about what you want to do, there is no way to answer. In Ezaki's case, he already had an online donation system called "BOKINChan" in operation, and he was very clear about what he wanted to do with it.

The payment flow for the online donation system "BOKINChan." Currently used by 20 organizations, including NPOs.

We want to solve the problems unique to donation systems

Sugimoto: What did you talk about at that time, Mr. Ezaki?

Esaki: In a typical sales system, the relationship between seller and buyer is one-to-one. However, in a fundraising system for a non-profit organization, one person can be a donor, a volunteer, or even a member. I think we were talking about wanting to create a system that can be managed with people at the center.

Sugimoto: I can't really visualize "people-centered management."

Motohashi: For example, if you send out direct mail every year, instead of sending multiple emails to people who have donated multiple times, you could send just one email instead, or if there has been no donation for about five years, you could send a thank you email. This means that you can manage your fund based on money and manage your fund based on people.

Esaki: BOKINChan is a system for receiving donations. Data obtained when making a donation, such as the donor's name, email address, date, and amount, should be stored and managed in each organization's database (hereafter referred to as DB). When you receive a donation, you need to issue a receipt, and if you are a public interest incorporated foundation or a certified NPO, you need to issue a certificate for donation deductions, so it's impossible to manage it in Excel. You need a DB that suits the size and stage of your organization, and you also need know-how to manage the data.

So this time, we asked Dai-chan, who we had been asking to create plugins for BOKINChan, to help us create "Bokinton," a platform that provides supporter list management, which is necessary beyond the online donation system. Furthermore, if there are not enough people to manage and operate the system, Sonorite's Kamiyama office can provide an administrative service.

How the support platform "Bokinton" works

Bringing your database to life

Sugimoto: I see. For non-profit organizations, donations or fundraising are a way to support their activities. The relationship that follows is also important. In addition to BOKINChan, the system for collecting money, there is Bokinton to maintain relationships with donors, and an administrative service to provide operational support. Sonorite has a complete system for supporting non-profit organizations.

Ezaki: Going back to the time when we originally created BOKINChan, about 20 years ago there was no understanding or trust for NPOs, and there was no payment system that could be used. So we thought, "I want to create a donation system that NPOs can use," and we created BOKINChan. Compared to back then, crowdfunding and hometown tax donations have spread, and donations have become quite common. On the other hand, most NPOs still do not understand the need to manage supporters in a database. I think that is an overwhelming weakness.

Donor data, such as addresses and email addresses, change from moment to moment. The original purpose of receiving data is to make good use of it. In order to keep data alive, you need the power of a database and a little know-how, but I don't think this is widely understood.

Kintan Lab - Daisuke Motohashi

Motohashi: From my perspective, I don't know how to maintain the list to make it live. For example, sending an email once a year to check if the address is still active, and other maintenance to make it live data, is a huge part of the know-how. There are many things I've learned for the first time through working with Sonorite.

Sugimoto: Sonorite is trying to go as far as imparting know-how on cultivating data in order to ensure continuous communication between nonprofit organizations and the donors who support them.

Esaki: I think that in the marketing world, customer management is probably something that is taken for granted. Hotels and other places are always updating their data, but I think there are few managers of nonprofit organizations who have that kind of feeling towards donors. I want them to make the most of the data they have collected and use it well to expand their activities.

Motohashi hits back with all his might, "Can't you do this?"

Sugimoto: Mr. Hayashi (CEO of Monosus) said, "There is no client who can use Motohashi as well as Mr. Ezaki." (laughs) What is your usual work environment like?

Esaki: I don't like being trapped by preconceived notions. When I say "Can we do something like this?" to Dai-chan, I think he'll think of something.

Sugimoto: It's been the same pattern since the first time we worked together.

Motohashi: I think Mr. Esaki is very patient. When he gives me a rough request like "I want to do this," I often give him a few narrowed-down answers. In system design, I give three proposals, A through C, and then he responds by saying "I want to do this part of A," and then we dig deeper into A and give him three or four proposals, and we go back and forth like this. Mr. Esaki keeps coming back to me without wavering, so in the end, we get a clear idea of what we want to do.

Ezaki: It's the first time someone has called me patient (laughs). I'm stubborn, and I never give up on what I want to do.

Motohashi: My first job is to provide a broad perspective on the way to solving problems. So in the early stages, I use a very broad response to make it clear that "we're not going in this direction," which is called "pruning." Even if someone comes to me for advice on a web system, I look at the content and reply, "You can do it this way without a web system," or "There is also a way to use another service." Depending on the person, they may think that my response is inconsistent and lose interest, thinking, "But you said you wanted to make a kintone plugin." I've reflected on this and realized that I need to be more creative in how I communicate and make it easier for them to understand.

Ezaki: I trust Dai-chan and know that no matter what I say, he'll think about it.

Motohashi: This isn't system development but rather manufacturing work, but it's a good example in terms of the breadth of the work, so can I talk about it a bit?

Previously, when Sonorite was planning to set up a booth at an event, they asked us to make a large logo of about 2 meters. So we suggested, "How about making it with aluminum balloons?" Balloons are light, can be inflated on-site, and are easy to clean up afterwards. So, the staff and I went to a 100-yen shop near the Sonorite office to get the materials and try making a prototype, but we realized that it would be difficult to make it this way. We also tried cutting and pasting polystyrene foam, and assembling wood cut with a laser cutter on-site. In the end, we decided to use polystyrene foam.

Blueprint for the prototype made with a laser cutter (rejected)

A feasibility study is a method of checking the feasibility of a project in advance through research and testing. In this case, we tried balloons and styrofoam. When it comes to system development, there are options such as resolving the problem on the browser, processing on the server side, or using voice input from a smartphone or calling up with a physical button. In this world where no means are chosen to make things more convenient, we have also created a system that works with landlines in the past. The people at Sonorite are patient with us through this pruning process.

Ezaki: That logo was beautifully painted with water-based paints. If you're going to do something, you don't want to do it half-heartedly. Dai-chan does the calculations and thinks carefully about the logic behind "this is possible." I'm really grateful to him.

The logo is a large object in the shape of a tuning fork, which represents sonorité (French for "resonance"). The staff completed it based on Motohashi's idea.

I want to expand the possibilities of kintone plugin development

Esaki: Over the past few years, I've asked you to do a lot of things while making "Bokinton." I think you've been very patient in your response. Wasn't it difficult?

Motohashi: I was able to work on a project that steadily moved forward step by step, so it was very rewarding and I didn't find it difficult. Sonorite's approach to work matches my ideal style and direction of kintone development. The reason I chose kintone is because it allows me to make the most of the capabilities of a single programmer, and for that, a team like Sonorite's is ideal.

Using kintone as a base means that the client will inevitably have to become familiar with how to use kintone. Sonorite has an internal kintone team, and they are training people who can use it at an advanced level. If we can leave it to Sonorite to connect the client with kintone, we developers can focus on developing only the automation part hidden behind kintone.

Sugimoto: Is there anything you'd like to do together in the future?

Ezaki: "Bokinton" developed a plugin that automatically links BOKINChan and kintone, and created a solution package to manage supporters. "Bokinton" cannot be used by hundreds of companies because it cannot be processed without BOKINChan, but I think it would be possible to sell just the plugin separately.

Motohashi: That's right. BOKINChan is a niche system for fundraising and donations, but if you abstract it a step further, there are other companies that operate organizations in the same way as Sonorite, so the more you expand the field, the more you're sure to find other places that fit into the same niche.

What I'm thinking is that creating kintone plugins is quite complicated and difficult at the moment. I think that larger companies are probably doing the same thing, but in the past I've developed a common library for plugins, and with this library you can start developing a plugin with the same ease as writing a configuration file. I'm thinking about whether I can provide this library to teams who want to develop plugins for kintone.

Nowadays, when it comes to plugin development, there are two extremes: contract development where the specifications and budget are decided and the development is completed in about six months, or in-house development. However, if the work of plugin development itself can be made lighter, one programmer can work on multiple projects in parallel and aim for a middle ground where they work together to create a system. At Kintan Lab, we want to effectively promote this style of development.

Ezaki: Yes, there is a possibility. "BOKINTON" is BOKINChan and kintone, but there are many related functions, so I think it could be used as a grant management app, for example.

Sugimoto: I hope we can continue to work together in various ways. Thank you very much.

The interview was conducted at the Kamiyama Valley Satellite Office Complex.

My workspace is located inside the Motohashi complex. This is how I usually work.