I want to learn more about unknown worlds through work that utilizes all my senses. Designer/Programmer Hayashi Yosuke

Hello, I'm Sugimoto, a writer living in Kyoto.
Autumn was so short that there was no time to indulge in food, art, or reading, and before you know it, it's gotten cold and already halfway through January.

Last October, I interviewed Hayashi Yosuke of the HAUS unit.
The HAUS unit joined Monosus in the spring of 2023. However, Yosuke actually appeared in the serial "Meguru no Monosashi" article seven years ago (2017). Furthermore, he has been working with the representative, Manabe (Taichi), for nearly 20 years.

We occasionally attend meetings to renew the Monosas website, and whenever Yosuke opens his mouth, I get excited. What kind of person is Yosuke, and what happened to him at Monosas? I wanted to know more about his work and how he works, so I had a chance to talk to him.

After working for a company for three years, I became a freelancer.

Sugimoto: Can I ask you about the kind of work you have done up until now and how you ended up joining Monosus?

When I joined the company after graduating, Manabe- san and (Yamauchi) Makoto-san were in the same department. (Former CEO) Hayashi-san and Tatsuta-san (Yoshihiro) also came to visit. After about three years, I left the company and became a freelancer. At that time, there was a trend of following a mentor for about three years before going independent, so I thought, "Maybe I can do that?" I worked as a freelance designer and programmer, but there were interesting jobs but they didn't make money. I thought this was not sustainable, so I got a job in the research and development department of Dwango. I created my own works and uploaded them to the Internet, and someone who was watching them invited me to Dwango.

In the R&D department, everyone wrote programs for work and also wrote programs to relax, so it was really interesting. It was also very free. I was doing UI design and UI programming for e-book readers. The engineering was very solid, so I was able to experience the correct way of thinking about engineering and programming, and how engineers work.

However, as social games started to become popular, the working conditions improved in order to recruit engineers from various companies, and gradually people left the team. Engineers were mainly motivated by what language they could use and what technology they could try. I was shocked to learn that such a way of thinking existed.

A job where you can't go beyond your limits is not enough

Sugimoto : After that, you moved to Square Enix (hereafter referred to as Square Enix).

Hayashi : Yes. I actually wanted to do small projects like smartphone games, but when I was introduced to a job placement agency and went to an interview, it was a AAA title project.

Sugimoto: How was it being involved in the production of a game title that everyone knows?

Hayashi : I learned a lot. Because it's a huge game, it's divided into a world setting team, an item team, and a UI team where I was, and each team is led by a person who would be a director in a normal game. At the same time, the scope of work is clearly defined and cannot be exceeded. It's easy to understand, and it can't be helped for the sake of quality, but I couldn't move forward well. As various new technologies and ways of thinking emerge, I sometimes feel anxious and wonder, "Am I okay with this?"

In the internet industry, it was common to get and disseminate information online, and it was more open. It's changed a lot now, but games often had to be kept secret, and they didn't release information outside the industry, except at conferences within the industry, so it was a closed world. After I quit, I started working as a freelancer again, and I was involved in a project that Monosus was doing in Tohoku.

Sugimoto :I see, so that's when you appeared in "Meguru no Monosashi." For freelancers, it's important to have connections with the people you work with and the clients who place orders with you. How did you work?

Hayashi engineers have strong lateral connections, and people who had changed jobs before me introduced me to jobs and companies. There are also people like my friends from school days and Manabe-san who have always been watching over me, and my wife, a graphic designer, calls me when she needs anything web-related. When we work together, we meet new people, so it feels like work brings more work.

Measuring your market value through a recruitment agency

Yosuke Sugimoto's work is not just about design or programming. I feel like he can do something really interesting when he gets into it. That's why I think it's important to meet someone who understands Yosuke well.

Hayashi : Yes, that's right. It's all referrals, or basically it's all human connections. If I were to take a job interview as an engineer or designer without any experience, I don't think I would be hired. I probably wouldn't be confident that I could meet the expectations of the engineering skills and UI designer standards required in today's general job descriptions.

Sugimoto: It's interesting that you used a recruitment agency even though you thought that way. Why did you use a recruitment agency when you don't think you can be measured by general standards?

HayashiI wanted to measure my market value. I wanted to see how much I could do, and if I was no good at all, I would be fired right away. I went to a foreign recruitment agency and wrote my resume in English, and I did it a bit like a game.

Sugimoto: In the industry, it was like, "You're going to Square Enix? Wow!"

Hayashi : That's right. However, at the time, there was a feeling that making triple-A games was outdated, and the title itself had failed once and was at a point where it needed to be remade, so they brought in someone with no experience like me.

Sugimoto : I'm sure you've met a lot of interesting people up until now, but why did you decide to work with the members of HAUS?

I've known Inafuku Hayashi since my student days. We met in online programming communities and places like intercollegiate events, and even after graduating, we would meet at exhibitions and drinking parties. I've known Takeda online for a long time, and we had mutual acquaintances and would ask each other for work when we were freelancers. Takeda and Inafuku worked in the same place, so when Takeda was starting his own company, he called out to us. I was conscious of starting a company on my own, but I didn't really have an image of starting one with someone else. That's why we made all three of us executives of HAUS.

At the HAUS office before renovation (Takeda-san, back right; Inafuku-san, front right)

Repeated experiments to understand the workings of society

Sugimoto: After working as a company employee and a freelancer, what was it like starting your own company and working there?

Hayashi: I wanted to learn about corporations as a system in this world, so I tried it, and it was very interesting because it was a learning experience. However, there were a huge number of things that had to be decided one by one, so it was difficult. I had to do the accounting properly, and I had to be more careful about how I spent my money than when I was freelance. Everyone was too shy to use expenses.

Sugimoto: They are nice people (laughs).

Hayashi is such a nice person that he doesn't use expenses. If you buy what you need and pay taxes, you'll get poorer and poorer (laughs). I really can't think like a capitalist and I'm not suited to it. I was hoping that someone with management skills would come in and make things work, so I consulted Manabe and the others about it and they asked me if I wanted to work with them. I ended up joining Monosus.

Sugimoto : What was it like joining Monosus?

Hayashi: I think it's close to what I had envisioned. Even if we continued HAUS as a company, the three of us would grow older and lose our physical strength, and the people of our generation who give us work would no longer be in a position to place orders, so I predicted that we would get less work. I had thought it would be better for us to belong to a company as a team, or for everyone to become teachers, so in a sense it was a given for me. I'm still thinking about whether to bring HAUS back to the company in a few years, leave it as it is, or get rid of it.

Monosus is a lot more free than the companies I've worked for. If you say, "Isn't this system strange?" at Monosus, we can discuss it and make adjustments. Also, the company isn't too big, so I think it's good that we can all discuss what we think together.

Sugimoto: It's been a year and a half since you joined Monosus. Has there been any change in the freedom or scale of projects?

The work I did at Hayashi HAUS was, for better or worse, based on human connections, so the meetings were very long. There were times when we didn't even sign contracts, and sales were not done very well, so there were ups and downs. Since coming to Monosus, I have started to track numbers such as estimates and budget achievement rates to a certain extent, and it has become easier to draw up schedules and I feel like my work methods have become more organized. I'm also happy that the reach of my work has expanded. Because there is a part of me that wants to do work that has an impact on a huge mass audience.

In 2020, Monosus x HAUS held a new learning opportunity called "Special Lectures for Part-time Lecturers."

A breath of fresh air for HAUS and Monosus

How do the HAUS members at Sugimoto Monosus work?

Hayashi : I don't think things have changed fundamentally, but Takeda now deals with the more fundamental aspects of design, and Inafuku now seems to be the one being consulted about technical issues.

Sugimoto : I have the impression that you two really value Inafuku as a person.

Hayashi : Yes, Inafuku is someone who makes the impossible possible for us at HAUS. He is a highly skilled engineer, but that doesn't mean there is always work that can utilize his skills. However, there are jobs that only Inafuku can do. Especially in the case of art, it is important to continue to be active in the field or industry, and big jobs can suddenly come along. I think that such things are very important as things that cannot be simply converted into sales. HAUS has been able to achieve its sales targets, and I think the company is trying to understand how to do that.

Sugimoto: The field of art, including fine art, is so important that if it were lost, society would die, but it cannot be judged by indicators such as quarterly financial results. I feel that the existence of HAUS, which brought in that field, is opening up a hole in the company Monosus. Even when talking about work, Yosuke and his team are free and open, saying, "You can think about it in any way."

Hayashi: It's more interesting if various people's opinions are included, so I try to be as open as possible. I think it's better for things to be decided spontaneously rather than by myself, so I'm doing various things to create that kind of situation. Basically, I just leave it alone and say, "Please use it if you like," and I don't mind if it's not used. I like making things, so I'm happy if someone is happy with it. That's about it.

Sugimoto: I think you're great at accepting various people's opinions and giving them form in a harmonious way.

Hayashi: I like to think about how to incorporate things and make them come together nicely without any problems. I decide the scope of my work depending on the person. Or, I try to take a position where I can design as a programmer, or write code as a designer. I think I am committed to seeing projects and work take shape and be released to the world.

Sugimoto :How do you usually go about your work?

Hayashi : First there is a design, then we create a wireframe from the configuration plan and code it...or rather, the specifications are gradually solidified from a place where we don't have any idea. For me, it's easiest to create something that works, even if it's rough, and then proceed with the project. For example, when we created the BRUTUS special feature website "Tomorrow's Best Buy Market," we programmed something that moves based on the ideas we were given, and made adjustments based on that. I think it's great when we all go along with it and say things like, "Ah, this is it," or "I want to design it a little more like this," and it works out.

H: So you first share your vision and then move towards completion. There's joy in sharing the process of creating something together with clients and users.

Hayashi : I think that's probably true. I've worked with people who create things in that way, so there haven't been many discrepancies.

Increasing the number of people who empathize with our work

Sugimoto: Now that you have an environment for manufacturing at Monosas, have you thought about your future work, including what you want to do?

Hayashi: I want to increase the number of people who can empathize with our methods and ways of thinking. I hope to get more jobs like that. I also want to work in the fields of art and games, but basically, any job can be enjoyable if you work with fun members, and I feel like my knowledge has expanded through my work, so I would like to do more unknown work.

Sugimoto : I think there are probably people in unexpected places who would benefit from the manufacturing techniques you mentioned earlier.

Hayashi : I think there is a desire to mobilize more of our senses. In society, people think that linguistic communication skills and putting things into words will make things go well. That's one thing, but it's just that we now have a society where those kinds of people have the upper hand. There are so many interesting people who are left out of that. I hope we can all get those people involved in this.

Yosuke Sugimoto, you hold coder study sessions within your company, but do you also enjoy teaching others?

Hayashi : I can't teach and guide you step by step, but I do want to share the knowledge, ideas, and techniques I have. Rather, I want to share what I know and what has worked for me. Strictly speaking, I have never created anything on my own. Is it just creepy? I don't feel it's fair to have something that only I know and to benefit from it by not teaching it to others. It's important to think for yourself, but if someone asks me what I know, I'll answer everything.

Sugimoto: In what ways do you feel you are irreplaceable?

Hayashi: I'm sure I'm confident in how interesting I am (laughs). There are probably people with higher technical skills and better designs, but I think it's about making people think, "It's interesting to work with this person." I think the way to avoid being replaced by AI is to make humans themselves more interesting.

Sugimoto: Your work is digital, but it's about connecting with people and involving people based on human sensibilities, so in that sense it's very analog.

HayashiYou do things in a very human way. That's how you feel, and so is the community around you. That's why, when those kinds of people want to use digital technology, you're in the right place to reach out to them.

Thank you very much Sugimoto . It was so interesting that I ended up listening to it for a long time. I look forward to working with you and HAUS in the future.

After the interview, I asked Maki-chan (Yamada), who was listening with me, "What did you think?" and she replied, "Wow, so human-like!" Yosuke was surprised and asked, "What? You thought it wasn't human-like?" (laughs). Maki-chan said she had the impression that he was "more logical and not driven by emotions."

As I listened to their conversation, I suddenly wondered, "Can manufacturing be done without emotion or sensation?" and I thought, no, that's impossible. Every technology and every logic is filled with emotion, and it is received with the senses. I think that if you suppress that fact, it will somehow become suffocating.

How does HAUS cultivate the work and culture of Monosas? On the Monosas site, we would like to introduce the work that HAUS is involved in little by little. Please look forward to it!