Adults who gaze into the unseen future will create an exciting Yosano
~ Interview with Toshikazu Ariyoshi and Yosuke Takaoka (General Incorporated Association PLACE) ~

This is the second part of our interview with Hisakazu Ariyoshi and Yosuke Takaoka, representatives of PLACE, a general incorporated association that is working hard to create a new town in Yosano Town, located in the northern part of Kyoto Prefecture.

Yosano Town is a major producer of the silk fabric "Tango Chirimen," and is also a place where agriculture such as rice and vegetables thrives. Based in "nest," a renovated soy sauce warehouse in the town, the couple supports activities that create new appeal for Yosano Town, including the operation of " Yosano Mirai University ," under the slogan "People meeting people = possibilities are born."

Following on from last year, this year from summer to autumn , Food Hub Project manager Manabe will be giving a lecture at the Future University of Goodness. Manabe is from Kamiyama Town in Shikoku, and the other two are from Yosano Town, both of which are working on town development.

In the first part , we asked the two about why they decided to return to Yosano, the town where they were born and raised, and to work on town development, and the roots of their passion for town development.
In the second part, Manabe, who came to Yosano Town in search of delicious food in preparation for the lecture, talked about the town's food culture and the future of town development.
(Interviewer: Yoko Omura)

From Mt. Oe to the Noda River and then to Asoumi Sea.
What are the roots of the food culture of Yosano Town, which has a river system?

Manabe
I was invited to Yosano Mirai University, and I think this lecture will be a deeper exploration of the town than last year. This time, I visited farmers and other producers in Yosano Town, but I still haven't been able to grasp how the town's unique food culture has remained.

At the end of July, Food Hub members toured farms in Yosano Town in preparation for a class at Yosano Mirai University the following month.

But it must be there somewhere. There were merchants who prospered through crepe weaving, and those merchants spent their money somewhere, and food culture flourished...

Ariyoshi-san
Maybe it would be Gion or Kyotango.

Manabe
Will it be outside of town?
When did the towns of Yosano merge to become Yosano?

Takaoka
Twelve years ago, the three towns of Iwataki, Nodagawa, and Kaya merged to form the area we see today.

Ariyoshi-san
I think this merger makes sense, as the towns are connected by a single water system, with the Nodagawa River, which originates in Mt. Oe and flows into the Asoumi Sea.

Manabe
I see. This is a bit off topic, but I think it would be good for each watershed to have a food hub.

Japanese food culture and the formation of towns must have developed along the river system. I think Yosano Town has a similar shape. When you look at it from above, there are mountains, flat land, and it flows into the sea - it's perfect.

Ariyoshi-san
Rice grown at high altitudes is delicious.

Manabe
The cleaner the water and the greater the temperature difference, the tastier it becomes.
As culture flourishes based around these water systems, I think that people with money will create food culture.

Ariyoshi-san
The Mikami family of Miyazu and the Bito family who flourished from the Edo to Meiji periods along Yosano's Chirimen Kaido were very wealthy. They even built railways for textiles. Industry was thriving, they made money, and they must have had delicious food...

It is not a town where people have made a living solely from agriculture. Many people used to work in the fields, but when weaving became profitable, many people started weaving.

(Front left) Takaoka-san (back left) Ariyoshi-san (right) Manabe

Takaoka
I heard that the profits were enormous.

Ariyoshi-san
In those days, if you wove a gacha, it would be worth 10,000 yen. Yosano's unique food culture...it's hard to think of.

Takaoka
I guess because she was busy weaving, she just fed the kids lunch in 15 minutes and then just had a quick meal for herself.

Manabe
When a town becomes wealthy and prospers, they bring in chefs and set up shops, where the businessmen can hang out and have fun. I think this is how a town develops. Was that kind of culture something that existed?

Ariyoshi-san
I hear that the neighboring city of Miyazu once had a flourishing entertainment district.

Takaoka
During the time of the Kitamae ships, it was said to have been a little more expensive than Gion at one point.
Just yesterday, Food Hub's head chef, Mr. Hosoi, asked me about local dishes, and I couldn't think of anything at all.

Ariyoshi-san
But when it comes to rice, I've always had very high standards. When I eat out and try rice, there are many times when I realize I can't eat it.

Manabe
And the children too?

Ariyoshi-san
The same goes for children.

Takaoka
There is an abundance of materials.

Manabe
There is also the possibility of creating new ones.

Ariyoshi-san
Come to think of it, there is a shellfish called black clam in the Aso Sea that is even more delicious than clams, and I used to eat it regularly when I was little.

Takaoka
The sea has changed and is no longer there.

Taking the food that has been loved since ancient times as our starting point,
The mountains and the sea may change

Manabe
Are the black lips gone?

Ariyoshi-san
Yesterday, I was talking to someone who takes care of the mountain, and he said that the mountain is not doing well. The impurities in the water itself have disappeared, and the lack of minerals from the mountain is what's causing the shellfish to disappear.
The trees aren't being thinned out and almost no one goes into the mountains. And yet, I'm a furniture maker...

Takaoka
He says that since we are a lumber company, we have to think about it.

Manabe
This means that there is an inevitability in protecting the mountains.

Takaoka
That's right. Our company was originally founded as a forestry business that cut down trees from the mountains, and our business has always been transporting the trees that we cut down from the mountains to the city center.

Rather than just going into the mountains myself, I would like to make proposals to the government and think about how we can support the people who are protecting the mountains and how we can create a system to support them.
This is a bit off topic, but Kamiyama is famous for its cedar, but is it possible to advertise products as being made in Kamiyama Town?

Manabe
It is certified as being produced in Kamiyama.

Takaoka
That's amazing. I don't think there's any other small municipality in Kyoto that certifies timber produced in the city. No matter where in the prefecture the wood is harvested, it's produced in Kyoto.

Manabe
Kamiyama has been certified as a town-produced timber producer. Even disposable chopsticks have Kamiyama cedar inscribed on them.
There is a Forestry Revitalization Council in Kamiyama, and I think the people who make the certification there probably work with outside organizations and the town office.

Takaoka
What kind of wood is specified?

Manabe
The base is cedar.

Takaoka
As a material?

Manabe
I think the main focus is on architecture. In Kamiyama, there is an idea of basing the economy on the local economy. It is easy to understand because it is based on that. In the project for housing complexes in the town, rather than saying that they used wood produced in the town when building them, they have created a certification system and are working on it.

But I think it makes sense for sawmills to encourage this kind of thing.

Takaoka
That's right. It's quite difficult in Kyoto Prefecture at the moment, but if they were to be able to certify produce produced in the town, that would likely change dramatically.

Manabe
Materials are certified as produced in Yosano Town and circulated within the region. It's a system that makes everyone happy.

Ariyoshi-san
If we go into the mountains of Yosano like that, the sea will probably improve too. Maybe the black-crested otter will make a comeback! (laughs)

Takaoka
But it's true.

Manabe
From the mountains to the sea. It's interesting to have something like that as your core. It's on a grand scale, though.

Ariyoshi-san
It's a big project, so it's quite tough. But there are people who are doing it. They're called "Sanshi no Kai" and they work hard to go into the mountains and thin out the trees and maintain the area.

Takaoka
I had the opportunity to visit them yesterday.

Ariyoshi-san
They're in their 70s or late 60s, so we'd like to find young people who are interested in doing this, but it's not that easy.

Manabe
That's true... What kind of shellfish is the black lipped shellfish that was found in Aso Sea?

Ariyoshi-san
It's super delicious. It tastes like a combination of oysters, clams, and mussels.

Manabe
I can't imagine it at all, but it looks delicious!

Ariyoshi-san
It's like a combination of clam broth, oyster milky insides, and clam meat. It's delicious whether cooked or grilled. If it were to be revived, we might have a black-mouth bar instead of an oyster bar. It would be really tasty if you squeezed some lemon on it and sprinkled some coarse salt on it. I've never eaten it like that, though, because it's not available now.

Some are about the size of rice balls, and up until about 10 years ago, if you went to the people of Iwataki, where NEST is located, along the Aso Sea coast, you could eat a lot of them. I think the most common way to eat them is in miso soup. If you go to a barbecue, you can also grill them and eat them. I think people in that area have always eaten them as a normal part of their lives.

Manabe
But then he's gone.

Ariyoshi-san
You can't catch them anymore. They were caught in Amanohashidate too. You go swimming, grab them with your feet, and catch them with your toes. It's similar to digging for clams.

Manabe
Everyone from the generation above Ariyoshi-san knows how delicious it is.
I think that this is probably the origin of projects that are supported by the local community.
When word got out that they were going to make a comeback, everyone wanted to support them.

Even if we say, "We have to do something about the forest," it doesn't seem very realistic.
But, in order to grow things like Kurokuchi that everyone knows and eats, we need to take good care of the forest. I think things like that that everyone can empathize with can change reality.
It's an ambitious idea to go from the mountains to the sea, so the hurdles are quite high, but I'm sure there are some interesting researchers out there who can do it.

But when we talk, stories like Black Mouth come up.
It's definitely inside of you all.

Takaoka
Is there something that you used to eat a lot of but that's no longer around?

Manabe
That's right. Kamiyama seems to have a strong food culture, but there aren't many restaurants. But the power of food lies dormant among the local mothers. I think it's important to find ways to preserve that power.

Ariyoshi-san
Come to think of it, if you go towards Iwataki you will find a gun.

Manabe
What is a "gun"?

Takaoka
It is made by sprinkling ginger, soy sauce and sesame seeds on rice, mixing it and then rolling it into balls.

Ariyoshi-san
It's delicious.

Manabe
What condition is ginger in?

Takaoka
Grate the ginger. It's very delicious, but in the past, funerals were held at our house, so I still ate it when I was little. A neighborhood auntie would make miso soup and "teppou" for me.

Manabe
There is local cuisine!

Ariyoshi-san
The youth division of the Chamber of Commerce made and sold a lot of guns at an event, and they sold out in the blink of an eye.

Takaoka
Mochi is good too. At funerals, the time of eating is different, and you can take it home with you. When my father died, the funeral was held at home. But nowadays, funerals are not held at home. There must be a lot of foods that have disappeared like this.

Manabe
I'd love to try it. There are still people who can make it, right? I'd like someone who has been making it for a long time to make it and say, "Wow, I made this!"

Takaoka
Of course, I think there are. Kamaboko, miso soup, and "teppou". I remember eating this when I was a child. It was delicious.

Manabe
I think there are probably many more. I think there are lots of detailed stories about food in each region.
By region. Because it spanned three administrative districts.

Thinking about the people of the future who are yet to be seen,
A town with many adults choosing to act the way they do now

Here, Rika Yajima, an acquaintance of the couple who was staying at Kayayama no Ie , the inn where the interview was being conducted, greeted us before we left for Kyoto.

Yajima is in the middle.

Yajima is the CEO of " Aeru ", a company that connects Japanese traditions to the next generation. He also has a program called " Artisan's Talk " (every Friday morning 6:00-6:55) on Kyoto's radio station A Station, where he introduces young artisans from Kyoto. He frequently visits Yosano Town, and on this day, he will be introducing artisans from Yosano Town's traditional industry, "Tango Chirimen", on his program. We asked Yajima about his impressions of the two of them.

Mr. Yajima and Mr. Yajima think about things beyond just their own profit or the profit of the company.

It's exciting to be with them, as they enjoy working together to think about what they can do now for the next generation. They inspire our imaginations about a future that is yet to be seen.

A town with many adults who look to the future - I believe this is the prerequisite for an attractive rural area that will remain in the future.
If we are always thinking about people in the distant future, we will naturally take actions that are good for us in the present. Like these two people, there are many other adults in this town who are working with an eye to the future. This is one of the reasons why I visit Yosano Town.

Ariyoshi-san and Takaoka-san
Good point (lol)

Manabe
wonderful.

Takaoka
Certainly, she comes to Yosano quite often.

Yajima-san will be back here again in 4 days!

Manabe
thank you very much.

Mr. Yajima mentioned the future, and the Food Hub will also be holding a course at Yosanomirai University . It is run under contract with the town, but can you tell us more about what kind of activities it does?

Takaoka
In Yosano, there were far fewer opportunities to listen to and learn from leading people than in the city center. We wanted to create an environment where people in the town could learn the latest things and make them happy, and that was the beginning of Yosano Mirai University.

Currently, the school is divided into three courses: Liberal Arts, Regional Development, and Yosano Brand Strategy and Business. Our goal is to have cutting-edge learning here, and we attract top people from various fields.

The value of having top-notch people come to the town may not be clear to the townspeople yet. But I hope that they will come once and experience its greatness for themselves. I hope that such experiences will produce amazing people from the town.

People who have studied at Yosano will go out into the world. Conversely, the world will come to Yosano. It's a big idea, but I think it's possible, considering the level of people who have come here in the food industry. That's what I want to aim for, and I believe there are such people in Yosano.

We want to get excited and discover people who are hidden away. I think there are a lot of talented people out there, but there are also a lot of people who are just sleeping. That's why I'm looking forward to what's to come.

Manabe
I'll do my best too.

Ariyoshi-san
I don't know if the word "first-class" is appropriate, but we invite people who we think are first-class. After all, we want everyone to learn from good things that we think are amazing, that show effort, and are cool, even on a global scale.

What the countryside lacks are brains and ways of thinking. I feel like we're still in a cage in many ways, so I want to invite people with ideas and thoughts who are active outside of that cage to come here and mix them together.

At Yosanomirai University, we set aside time for lecturers and participants to interact. So, we naturally invite people who we want to become friends with. It's also the project we enjoy the most.

Manabe
This time, Food Hub will also be holding a lecture, but I think what we need to be careful about is whether or not we can maintain relationships that can last.

It's not good for the town if you just say something or say something arrogant just because you were invited. That's something I regret about the field hack. It might be a little different if the relationship is still small, but it's good that we were able to connect.

At the end of August, the Food Hub held a series of lectures, where dinner was served in the rice fields, using 100% ingredients from Yosano.

Ariyoshi-san
We also believe that "persistence is power," so we want to continue learning. Even if we hear the same topic, the feeling we get from hearing it this year is different from what we felt last year. Therefore, it is necessary for the course to have the same person give the same topic again the following year.

It takes quite a bit of time for me to fully digest it and be able to communicate it.
We felt that the Food Hub project had to continue, so we decided to invite them again this year after last year. We believe that town development and health are themes that need to be continued.

By continuing in this way, I would like the people of town to come to realize that PLACE has to be the place to run the place.

What is your impression of Monosus?

Manabe
At Monosus, we have a saying that we work with people who want to live together, and that means continuing the relationship. Finally, can I ask you what impression you have of Monosus?

Ariyoshi-san
I have had drinks with the CEO, Mr. Hayashi, and have met him many times, and although it's not the power of Hayashi, I feel that everyone has power. I thought that many people in IT companies were not good at communication, but everyone is friendly and some people express themselves. I feel that we are close and have a sense of affinity. The website is also familiar, and I think the CEO who decided to start a food hub is amazing.

Manabe
It's amazing, and it's changed.

Ariyoshi-san
It's different. So I think our standards are different. By being together, I always learn something new, like, "Oh, I've received this."

Takaoka
Usually, IT companies are located in cities, and their goal is money or going public, so they increase sales and move into nice buildings... Of course, not all companies are like that, but that's the image that tends to take hold. However, someone from such an area has come into contact with a completely different field and is seriously doing agriculture in Tokushima. I'm very interested in why he came to that conclusion.

Where did the thought process of preserving the flavors of Kamiyama for future generations come from?
Which is your mission: your main business of IT or your work as a food hub to revitalize the local food culture? What is your mission and where are you trying to get to? I don't know if there is an answer, but I'm interested in it.

Manabe
The answer is pretty simple. I would like to answer it again. It was great to hear about your upbringing this time. Thank you very much.

To Ariyoshi-san and Takaoka-san

Regarding the last question from Mr. Takaoka,
I don't think this is an answer, but I hope to share my thoughts.

The company's president, Hayashi, says that Monosus doesn't have a "mission." It seems that he is concerned about leading the group too far in one direction. Rather, he seems to be interested in nurturing the diverse "yardsticks" of each individual. Diverse "yardsticks" could also be said to be diverse "businesses."

He often talks about wanting to train people on both how to earn and how to spend money through Monosus' business. It doesn't seem like making a lot of money and spending a lot of it (solving everything with money) is the only way to be happy. I think you can also get happiness and wealth by "earning a reasonable amount and spending it well." I think they are continuing to experiment with how to do this together through the Monosus corporate organization. So, in order to increase the options for how to earn and spend money, they have set up an office in Thailand, a satellite office in Kamiyama, and the vice president has moved to his parents' home of Suo-Oshima and set up a satellite office there (the cost of living is low everywhere). From here, it becomes important for Monosus to "what" to do at each base.

The Kamiyama Food Hub Project could be considered the first step in this experiment.

My own interpretation of Hayashi's "how to earn" and "how to spend" money is "how to work" and "how to live," and ultimately, I believe life is meant to enrich these two things (how to work and how to live). Monosus is based in Tokyo and focuses on "how to work (how to earn)," while Food Hub is based in Kamiyama and focuses on "how to live (how to spend)," with a focus on food. Food Hub's motto, "locally produced food," is also about "what to choose and how to eat," so it's about how to spend money and how to live.

The other day, Hayashi was talking about "economic rationality" and "aesthetics." He said that in general, if you pursue only economic rationality in business, you can expect a certain degree of success, but when each person's aesthetics of "how I want it to be" get in the way, it often doesn't go well. However, Food Hub (≒me) has no economic rationality at all, and instead has only "aesthetics."

I think this story also ties into the topic of town development, but I feel like the world today is prioritizing only "economic rationality" and everyone is forgetting about or suppressing "aesthetics." In the end, I think "aesthetics" means doing things thoroughly that are "super" troublesome but that many people "actually" think should be done (especially in the context of food). In many cases, town development is done using tax money, so I think we should pursue "aesthetics" more and more. (It would be pointless if it wasn't economically rational enough to continue...lol)

I sense a great energy from both Ariyoshi and Takaoka, as they work together to create something similar to our idea of "work style" and "life style." This is also evident from the atmosphere of the many acquaintances they hear talking to them as they pass by in the town. I look forward to seeing them continue to thoroughly pursue their own "aesthetics" (which is super tedious lol) with the town of Yosano as their central focus. Thank you for your continued support.

Taichi Manabe