Instead of chasing the number of settlers,
Helping people relocate in a way that brings joy to both the individual and the local community
~ Interview: Kazuki Nishimura (Suo-Oshima Town Hall) ~

In this corner, "Meguru Measuring Rulers," we interview people connected to Monosus about their own "ruling rulers." This time, we have Kazuki Nishimura.

Located on the eastern edge of Yamaguchi Prefecture, Suo-Oshima Town is an island in the Seto Inland Sea connected to the mainland by the Oshima Bridge. It is said that at its peak, about 65,000 people lived there, but the current population is around 17,000. Nishimura was born and raised in the home of a fisherman and a net owner on the island, and now works at the Suo-Oshima Town Hall, supporting people who are considering settling on the island.

Of course, Vice President Nagai was also taken care of when he moved here, and now he has gone beyond being a town hall official and a migrant and has become a drinking buddy. He has a deep connection with Monosus, even acting as the master of ceremonies for the opening ceremony of our fifth base, the Suo-Oshima satellite office .

In this conversation between the two, we learn about the locals' desire for new residents and settlers, the true feelings of new residents and settlers, and the "yardstick" of Mr. Nishimura, who strives to do more than just another city hall official.
(Interviewer: Kensaku Saguchi)

Even if it's not Suo-Oshima, we would be happy if you came back to Yamaguchi. What is the driving force behind your enthusiasm in dealing with people who want to relocate?

Nagai : Actually, I haven't heard from you about how you became responsible for immigration and settlement measures. In the case of a town hall, you can't just raise your hand and say, "I want to be in charge of immigration!" and become a part of it, right?

Nishimura : No. I didn't. I was only informed of the transfer when it was announced. I was transferred to the Policy Planning Division of the General Affairs Department, where I am now, 11 years ago. At first, I was in charge of public relations and disaster prevention radio, and it was four years ago that I started working on migration and settlement.
A new team was created within the department, and I was transferred to that team. Four years ago, the Regional Development Team was created, and I started working on immigration and settlement, and a year ago, the Settlement Measures Team was created, which specializes in immigration and settlement, and I was put in charge of that.

Nagai :So the settlement task force was formed surprisingly recently.

Nishimura: It was around the time that Mr. Nagai came to Suo-Oshima. The mayor created a settlement countermeasure team to put more effort into settlement measures.

Nagai: The point is not to move, but to settle down?

Nishimura: The town office's thoughts are put into this, but I don't intend to be too tied down by it, so I express it by taking the stance that I'm in charge of migration.

Nagai: At the Tokyo immigration briefing session, our staff members were impressed by Mr. Nishimura's explanation and his response to each immigrant. He was really enthusiastic. In fact, Mr. Nishimura has been really kind to me. What is the driving force behind your work that goes beyond the impression of a permanent settlement officer since you were transferred?

Nishimura (left) was consulting at a consultation event for those considering relocating to Yamaguchi Prefecture held in Yurakucho. Participants who had been to the event several times and were considering relocating to Yamaguchi Prefecture called out to him by his name, "Nishimura-san," and constantly came to him for advice.

Nishimura : It's person-to-person. I act as the contact point for Nagai-san and other migrants, explaining things to them about moving to Suo-Oshima, so I feel a sense of responsibility towards them. Well, it's a heavy responsibility to say the least, but I want to be available to them for any advice they may have, and I want to deepen my communication with them.

Nagai: In a sense, moving and settling down somewhere can affect a person's life.

In the case of Mr. Nagai Nishimura, in addition to saying "I'm going back to Oshima," where he was born and raised, he also came back to Suo-Oshima Town to open a Monosus satellite office, and we had him utilize Suo-Oshima Town's plan. However, when I receive consultations from people who are worried about "moving" from Tokyo or Osaka, I am in the position of being the one to draw them to Suo-Oshima.
Naturally, it will completely change that person's life, so it is a big responsibility and can sometimes feel scary. So when I speak at consultation meetings about settling down, I make a point of talking about the negative aspects of living on Suo-Oshima.

Nagai : That's true. He was so honest that the listeners wondered, "Is it okay to list so many things?"

Nishimura: It's honest, but it's also a strategy. People from other areas appeal to others by saying, "Our area is such a great place," and then conclude by saying, "So please come and visit us."
But that's something that anyone can talk about, and I thought that by delving into the negative aspects, people might become interested and see that "Suo-Oshima doesn't only have good things to talk about."

Nagai : It's true that if someone tells you everything without hiding anything, you won't end up thinking, "It wasn't supposed to be like this."

People who came to the Nishimura information session and said, "I'm thinking about moving here," sometimes email me later saying, "Thank you for teaching me so honestly about Suo-Oshima," so I think that's not a mistake.

Nagai : Do you feel rewarded when you get a response to what you say and even if it's just one or two people, it increases the number of people coming to Suo-Oshima?

Nishimura : It's simply a joy. To give a recent example, I went to the migration and settlement fair in Osaka in November of last year. Before that, a young person in his 20s called the town hall and said, "I want to move back from Osaka," and when we told him, "There's a fair in Osaka next time, so come and visit," he came.
He was working on managing a high-rise building in Osaka. So, when he was asked, "This job doesn't exist in Suo-Oshima, does it?", he replied, "No, there isn't." But that's not the end of it.
So, although we don't have them here, I would be happy if they came back to Yamaguchi Prefecture, even if it wasn't Suo-Oshima, so I asked a person in charge from neighboring Shunan City at the fair if they had any, and he replied, "We don't have many here either," and I replied, "In that case, how about neighboring Kudamatsu City?"
As we passed the baton around in this way within Yamaguchi Prefecture, the man who wanted to emigrate seemed to think that we had been very considerate, and we ended up keeping in touch with each other.

Nagai : What happened after that?

Nishimura : In the end, I heard that a certain telecommunications company in the prefecture was hiring, so I called them and said, "There's a young person doing this kind of work in Osaka," and they said, "We're also recruiting employees," and gave me some information.
I forwarded it to him, and he said, "I'd like to take the exam." I had an interview after the New Year, got a job offer, and returned to Japan in March.
Then, a boy in his 20s came to the town hall with a gift to say hello. He was so happy that I had come back that I had to go and say hello to him. This is the happiest thing that has happened to me recently. I feel it's rewarding when someone who has consulted with me moves in.

Nagai: It's not just Suo-Oshima, but also Yamaguchi Prefecture is happy.

Nishimura : That will broaden their options. Also, if they remember that the people of Suo-Oshima were very kind to them, I think that will be a positive thing.

"In the city, you have to wear proper clothes even when going outside."
The reason why the island's settlement officer himself decided to return to his hometown to find employment

Mr. Nagai Nishimura, have you ever lived outside of Suo-Oshima?

After graduating from Nishimura High School, I lived in Hiroshima for one year and then in Fukuoka for four years for university.

Nagai :What is a year like in Hiroshima?

Nishimura: I was kind of a student who had failed the entrance exams, so after graduating from high school I went to a vocational school in Hiroshima. It was a two-year course, but I felt like it just wasn't right. I dropped out after one year. I took the entrance exam again for a university in Fukuoka in the winter, but I failed. So I asked my dad if I could go, and he said, "If you want to go, go." But in return, I had to work hard during the summer vacations for the four years of university.

Your family were fishermen, right?

Nishimura : The summer vacation from university was exactly the peak season for sardine fishing. So I worked like crazy at home. I got up at 6am, went offshore, came back, went to the ice shop to get ice in the afternoon, went offshore again in the afternoon and worked until 8pm.

Nagai : So you spent one year in Hiroshima, four years in Fukuoka, and then went to Suo-Oshima?

Nishimura : Yes. I decided to return to my hometown and work here when I was in my second or third year of university. The reason is that I'm lazy, but in Fukuoka, you have to wear clothes even if you just go out.

I've been living in Nagai- Oshima for a little over a year now, so I understand how you feel.

Nishimura : When I was young, my parents' house only had one or two air conditioners, so if I felt hot, I would go to the beach in just my underwear and enjoy the night breeze. Even if an old lady from the neighborhood passed by, she would just say, "You look cool." And that was it. I was still skinny at the time.

Nagai : It may be that you were somewhere in Fukuoka, but you can't just wear your underwear in the city.

Nishimura : Exactly. So, the town hall was hiring, so I applied and passed, so I thought I should go home.

Nagai : So it feels like things have returned to nature.

Nishimura: Because I'm Nishimura , I couldn't see anywhere else at first. Also, before the Heisei Great Merger, I was working in a small area called Towa Town, which is a goldfish's tail (because the shape of the island of Suo-Oshima resembles a goldfish), and even calling the prefectural office at the time was a little scary.
"Is it okay to ask this?" Now, if I have a problem, I just call and ask, and it's a two-way street with the prefectural immigration officer.

Meeting new people helped me break out of my shell. My interactions with people hoping to settle in Japan changed as I learned to think from multiple perspectives.

Nishimura: Today, I'm doing an interview for the "Measures Site," and I thought I might be asked about my own "measures," so I took a moment to reflect on my work.

Thank you Nagai .

Nishimura : I guess one's "yardstick" changes as one goes through life.
The first turning point was when I started working. My values changed when I joined the town hall organization, and then the municipal mergers took place. In 2004, the four Oshima towns of Kuga, Oshima, Towa, and Tachibana merged to form Suo-Oshima Town, and by talking to the staff of other towns, my own "yardstick" of the former Towa Town also began to change.
However, I think there were two events that marked the biggest change. The first was when I had the opportunity to attend a training course held in Tokyo in 2009.

Nagai: Is this training?

Nishimura: I went to Tokyo for three days once a month for ten consecutive months to take part in a training course on the theme of "community development," where I learned about what was happening centrally together with city and town officials from all over the country. This experience significantly broadened the scope of my thinking.

Nagai: What specifically has changed?

It felt like the frog in Nishimurai had finally climbed out of the well.
By participating in the nationwide training, I was able to understand the central system. By understanding the trends in society and how government policies are decided, I was able to see how to solve the problems we were facing.
I began to know where to go for advice if I had any problems, and I also made friends with other trainees all over the country who were willing to support me in this endeavor.

I also got to know university professors and experts who speak out at third-party government agencies, and I still treasure those connections today.
Anyway, I think it was a good opportunity for me to break out of my shell. Up until then, I had been able to move around the sites in Suo-Oshima Town, but I didn't know anything about the world outside.

Nagai: What's the other one?

Nishimura : That's how I met the guy from Osaka.

Nagai, are you an old man from Osaka?

Nishimura is from Suo-Oshima, and he worked hard in Osaka, started a company, and became successful. When he was an executive of the Suo-Oshima Town Association in Osaka, there was a phone call at the town hall, and since the person in charge happened to be out, I spoke with him for about an hour.
The first thing I was told was, "You only look for reasons why something can't be done," and "The worst thing about a city hall is that they always tell you why you can't do something." I was told this right away on our first meeting, and I couldn't say anything.
However, since that day, he remembered me and would call me whenever he had the chance, asking, "Nishimura, how are you?" After that, he returned to Suo-Oshima.

Nagai: It seems like you have a good relationship.

Nishimura: Even now, when I'm stuck for ideas, I call and say, "I'm stuck, can you please listen to me?" When I do that, he gives me some hints, but he doesn't give me the answer.
These two events changed the way I see things.
Previously, I could only see things from the front, but now I can see things from the side and diagonally. When a migrant says, "I want to do this," I start to think about what kind of needs the person is looking for, like, "Maybe I should start with finding a job for this person," or, "This person is the type who will fail if they come to the countryside, so it's better to gently decline." I think being able to see things from multiple perspectives has given me more leeway in how I respond.

Nagai: There are some people who fail when they come to the countryside.

Nishimura : Moving and settling down in a place is a big change in life, so I do look at people and ask myself, "Can this person blend into the community?" For example, I once had an argument with a woman who came to the town hall and wanted to settle there, after talking for an hour and a half.
"You only point out the bad things. You're on the settlement support team, right? Are you motivated?" "There's no point in talking to you. Call someone higher up."

Nagai : So you're gently refusing?

Nishimura: It's a little different.
However, if we break up there, it will only lead to complaints. That's where the real battle begins. "Anyway, I don't think that what you just said will lead to success when you settle down in the future, so I just wanted to tell you what I want you to be careful about."
I'm not saying this because I don't want you to come to Suo-Oshima, but if you move here and think a week later, "I never expected to live like this," then nobody will be happy.

I also tell my neighbors, "We have a person like this moving in soon, so please take care of him." If that person moves in and then leaves a month later, my neighbors will be disappointed, saying, "He came all the way here, and we'll be disappointed too." Of course, I'll be disappointed too.

Nagai: I think there is certainly a sense of excitement in the local area when people say "they're coming."

Nishimura: It creates an atmosphere of "Welcome to the city." But if the relocation doesn't go well after a month, it will disappoint the people who had high hopes for the place.
What is disappointing is when the level drops below what it was before. It also creates a negative image for people to move to and settle in the area, which leads to further decline of the area.

Nagai : "I guess it didn't work after all."

Nishimura: If it were me in the past, as a person in charge of immigration and settlement, I might have focused on numbers and tried to accept anyone and everyone.
But if we talk about why we are encouraging people to move and settle in the first place, it is to protect the local area. So if we end up disappointing the local people who are currently living there, there would be no point in us doing our job. That is what we are doing with this in mind.

Nagai : By the way, are there any common traits among people who seem unlikely to make it?

Nishimura: Most people change their mind if you talk to them, but they usually start with the house. They say, "I want to live in a house like this. I want to live in a place like this."
They don't try to find out what kind of area it is. In any case, the image of people who "just want to see the houses" when they imagine settling down is that they will bring city life to Suo-Oshima as it is. Neighborhood relationships, community meetings, and cleaning activities have nothing to do with them.
However, the work we do is to help immigrants and residents blend into the local community, so we believe that inviting people who don't want that at all would not be good for Suo-Oshima.

I want to say goodbye to the people who have taken care of me. My thoughts as a local resident who grew up in a fishing company's house.

What was it like growing up on Nagaijima ?

To the people of Nishimura , he was a young boy. He was one of three siblings, and he was my older sister and I. As he was a long-awaited boy born into a family that owned a sardine net fishing business, people around him would say, "You lived a life just like a young boy."

Nagai: What it means to become a fisherman?

Nishimura : I'm sure I never thought that. I would get seasick. I also don't think my dad wanted me to become a fisherman, and he never told me to become one.
In fact, I was even told by people in Okikamuro, where I have lived since I got married, "Aren't you going to move out? Are you moving?" They said it would be better for me to move to a more convenient place in Suo-Oshima.
But I replied, "I have no intention of going."

Nagai : I think it takes about 45 minutes by car from your house to the town hall. That's a commute time comparable to that in the city center, so I understand what your father is saying. Why are you so attached to this area?

Nishimura : I guess it's human nature. Even within the same Suo-Oshima, there's something different about the countryside like Okikamuro where I live and Chikamuro where Nagai-san lives... sorry (laughs), but towns close to the Oshima Bridge that connects to Honshu are somehow different.
I think it's easier for me to be among my neighbours, people I've known for a long time, and I believe it's important to look after those people until the end.

I'm not like Nagai Chika , but would you like to look after the people who have been watching over you since you were a child?

Nishimura : That's right. Not as a member of the town hall, but as a resident of the area that I care for on a daily basis. When someone I cared for passed away, and I heard, "They've died," I said, "Auntie, you're dead, aren't you?" When I went to offer my condolences, and saw their face, I said, "Auntie, you have a kind face."
When I was a child, I was scared and couldn't look at the faces of those who had died, but now I'm used to it. It may sound strange to say that I've gotten used to death, but that's how I want to see off those who have passed away.